The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Weekly reports of Modmin actions, decisions etc.
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PeruvianSpice
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby PeruvianSpice » 16 Mar 2015, 01:38

If you join a club, a job, or whatever, there are rules... rules that have to be obeyed... dunno why act like Denden is doing something new and crazy...

In a job, if there's a rule about not going to another people's office and offend them cause it might get you fired, you follow it. It you still wanna offend that worker, go out of the workplace.

Most places have rules...

Denden has... and it's not a rule that says "praise Victoria and Geri..." or "blindly worship them"... They allow discussions, disagreements even the eventual rant about a girl... that's fine... it's a fórum

What's been violated here are the rules...

And it's not like Dreamless were banned just cause...
Not because Jay said: you know what, it's offensive, and I don't like it

He actually warned him, which is fine! Which is a way of telling him: try to control the way you express opinions (you can still say you hate or dislike that subject but not in the way he did)

You can't expect the moderator to go and try to talk with said member and go into a long discussion about what he should or shouldn't do. This isn't a therapy group... it's a place where people with a hobby come to share it with...

:D
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Andres » 16 Mar 2015, 03:12

Becca wrote: Fuck Geri Halliwell


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PeruvianSpice wrote:
Most places have rules...

Denden has... and it's not a rule that says "praise Victoria and Geri..." or "blindly worship them"...


My thoughts exactly, we all know it's all about worshipping Bluebell Madoon and Phexion Chia
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby megzluvsmelc » 16 Mar 2015, 09:06

Reading the posts whether or not debating over the ban of Dreamless. Well I have to say that I'm with Jay and Becca it's because he had 3 warnings already right? Of course I did ignore his posts because what he did is an unacceptable behavior, Both of Jay and Becca tried so hard to keep the Spice Girls Fan Community safe and prevents members from the bullying and of course so does the other mod teams and admin teams.

And Dennis got his point btw and it's his site and also he's trying so hard to keep the forum clean and respect others' opinions on the artists. If there are the artists I don't like then I had to keep my negative comments to myself or I have to listen to their music before I judge.

But however, I'm glad Dreamless had been banned from the forums. He is abusive to other members so yeah that's all I got to say.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 16 Mar 2015, 21:01

We are not debating Dreamless anymore. Everyone agrees here that he is best banned.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 16 Mar 2015, 21:15

Dennis wrote:
Mr.X wrote:
Hi Dennis.
Glad you got involved in this discussion. Again, this was not an attack on Jay and I have made that very clear.

I totally understand that this forum was built upon the intention of creating a safe haven to those who would like to comment on Spice-related things. Also, I totally understand that this forum has since expanded into other areas, throughout the years. But I wouldn't be ok with being 'behave like us or fuck off' as what I am trying to explain is that perhaps some forms of dealing with certain members might not be completely appropriate. I am not against the forum as a whole, but were you ever completely happy with every party you were a part of? Sometimes you can see things that you would like to change and propose that change.


The way you proposed that change (like implying you could potentially be warned and banned as well for trying to make a change) was way beyond construcitive though, which is why it raised such replies.
I personally felt you were attacking both Jay and the the core of what I feel this forum is, and quite frankly, I thought you were a massive asshole, which is why I suggested you might as well leave. I'm glad to see now that this is not the case.

Mr.X wrote:Surely, if we want to create a safe environment, we also have to allow for discourse and disruption, try to understand it and work with it to try and convince them otherwise. Becca and Jays most recent posts are an illustration of this, clearly, and that was my intention here, as I have stated.

I come from a place that refutes notions of warnings and banning, and proposes dialogue for change. That is all I am getting at.


I help adults with learning difficulties for a living. Discourse and disruption, and working with situations and trying to get consensus and a reasonable decision, are my day to day job, I know how it's done. But DenDen is not life, but a hobby. And hobbies, you share with likeminded people. Just because it happens on the internet, it doesn't mean that it makes it more than what it ultimately is - a hobby. Let's say you want to join a firearm club, just to preach to members about how guns are wrong. Your intentions might be the best, your argumentation perfectly worded - but do you think you would be accepted as a member there?

To take it to forums: Let's say I join a feminist forum, solely to discuss how the bible says that a wife should obey her husband, cook good meals and keep the house clean. Do you think I would be met with discourse?
Or I join a football club forum and open a topic "Let's name 100 reasons why your biggest rival is better than your club". Do you think people would enjoy the new insight I would bring?

And where do we start the dialogue? We're going great lengths to prevent commercial spam on the forums. This is written by actual human beings who are paid a certain amount for each public post on a forum advertising product X. Should we start dialogues on how we're not THAT interested in kitchen cabinet offers and how they should find a better job that actually has a purpose? If yes: are YOU willing to discuss this with the 30 people who would do this per day if we let them, and also the 60 people who would complain about the topics about kitchen cabinets and the resulting discussion, driving them away from SG-topics? How is this different from keeping people out who OBVIOUSLY have nothing constructive to say in the context we built this forum on?

How is "Forever flopped because they had a worthless sack of sh*t like Mel C as a member" a valid, discussable opinion on a fucking FAN FORUM? It is meant to stir shit, by the content and also by how it was worded. Why should we bother with assholes like this in our spare time, on our hobby, when we have to deal with all these kinds of assholes on a day-to-day basis?

Seriously, I don't get why we should. It only benefits the people who solely sign up to annoy people, and with each and every reply, they get more fun out of it. They are not interested in discusssion, they're bored. I don't see ANY reason to keep such people here or even get into interaction with them. So, no. This is where I draw the line, this is supposed to be fun (it often isn't), and not a social experiment.


The reason that I went so extreme was that unfortunately, it seemed to be the only way I could get your attention, or at least from people that are in the position of power. I have stated many times that it was not against Jay. This became even more apparent when the conversation was changed to this forum rather than the original post in Spice Girls forum, as all of a sudden I felt cornered (I know that was not Jay's intention) and that I would loose most of the audience I was trying to achieve by the conversation being placed here.

So, apologies for being crude, and brash, and I hate that I had to go through that language, but it seemed to finally worked hey?!

I get what you are saying, although this is a very different proposition than what you are referring to - in terms of the publicity and people who come here just to say how much the girls are shit. LaSerpentaCanta is a fan. He/she/it might not necessarily be a fan of Geri and Mel C, but he/she/it is a fan of the group as whole. And this is a Spice Girls community forum, so of course automatically they make part of a community, be it DenDen or not.

My point is that there is a difference between trolls who have no interest in the Spice Girls and come here to sell stuff or simply to just annoy people. Then, there are the fans who might just need a little bit of enlightenment. And banning them might just be the worst option, as:

a) we loose another Spice Girls fan/forum member - there are not very many of us anymore...

b) perhaps if you don't want to engage in conversations, ignoring their bitterness towards some elements of the Spice Girls, could ultimately lead to them realising that no-one actually gives a shit about their opinions

c) It kind of looks like a dictatorship, in my opinion. I know everyone's hearts within the mods and yourself are coming from a good and healthy point, and i know that it is in light of what you all understand to be a better fit for the forums. But ultimately, for me, at least, it looks too much like a group of people having fun whilst being supervised by the high power.

I wonder if I could propose said change to this:

- Everytime there comes to a point in which a member has exceeded the amount of warnings, perhaps we could all go on a democratic vote? This could be placed here in the mods forum and it would become more an open decision? This would be a way of not only allowing the members to stress their problems with the members being judged, but also allow for the others to defend themselves. And in the space of a week, we would close the vote and whatever the outcome, it would be at least talked about and debated.

What do you think?
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby JimmyLo » 22 Mar 2015, 16:51

Mr. X, perhaps it's time to try your suggestion with a certain member who now has a whole topic dedicated to moving their ridiculous posts over to avoid people reply to them.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=220694
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 23 Mar 2015, 15:32

Information

You are not authorised to read this forum.


So clearly my suggestion wasn't considered, right?

This is all bullshit
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby FiaSpice » 23 Mar 2015, 15:36

It just mean the topic was moved into the graveyard only Modmins have acces.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 23 Mar 2015, 15:38

So there was a topic in which people voted?
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby JimmyLo » 23 Mar 2015, 19:33

Mr.X wrote:Information

You are not authorised to read this forum.


So clearly my suggestion wasn't considered, right?

This is all bullshit


Sorry about that, it was accessible to us until today. Didn't mean to lead you on :hmm:
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby JimmyLo » 23 Mar 2015, 19:35

Mr.X wrote:So there was a topic in which people voted?


No, sorry - again, my mistake.

It was a topic where they were moving LaSerpaCunta's negative comments to one thread to avoid escalation and people getting pissed off. Looks like the Mods moved it to their private section since they banned him.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Mr.X » 23 Mar 2015, 21:16

classic Denden.

Thanks for explaining Jimmy x
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Jay » 24 Mar 2015, 04:23

I forgot that moving the topic away to the graveyard would make the posts invisible. I'll move the posts back so they're visible for the purposes of this thread.

I'm relieved that he's banned and to be honest it seems certain that he was an alias of a previously banned member anyway. Honestly I don't come onto this forum to have to deal with that kind of shit every day however much people think that sort of user benefits the forum in some way. And I certainly have no time in my day to try and reason with a troll on an internet forum. None of the team do. He more than outstayed his welcome with the attitude he had.
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby PeruvianSpice » 24 Mar 2015, 07:22

i can't even believe some people thought it was ok to leave him ... but hey, i accept everyone has an opinión and point of view

i'm beyond happy he was blocked
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Vomiting Porpoise » 24 Mar 2015, 08:47

troll defeated Image x
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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Andres » 25 Mar 2015, 17:42

Vomiting Porpoise wrote:troll defeated Image x


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Re: The Mod-Log 2015: 12th March

Postby Narrator » 03 Apr 2015, 20:15

Mr.X wrote:c) It kind of looks like a dictatorship, in my opinion. I know everyone's hearts within the mods and yourself are coming from a good and healthy point, and i know that it is in light of what you all understand to be a better fit for the forums. But ultimately, for me, at least, it looks too much like a group of people having fun whilst being supervised by the high power.

I wonder if I could propose said change to this:

- Everytime there comes to a point in which a member has exceeded the amount of warnings, perhaps we could all go on a democratic vote? This could be placed here in the mods forum and it would become more an open decision? This would be a way of not only allowing the members to stress their problems with the members being judged, but also allow for the others to defend themselves. And in the space of a week, we would close the vote and whatever the outcome, it would be at least talked about and debated.

What do you think?

I think you're kinda confused. This is a privately owned forum, whoever is paying for it gets to make the rules. It's not supposed to be a democracy?

I actually think DenDen's rules are pretty fair as it is (I've visited much stricter forums) and I feel like the mod team tries to take users' opinions into account as much as possible. But the truth is they don't even have to do that. Dennis pays the bills, he has decided on a set of rules (which, again, I feel are perfectly fair and adequate), and people who signed up either follow them or they deal with the consequences - it's as simple as that. Again, this is not supposed to be a democracy even if some democratic elements, like voting for the mod team, have been implemented here.

If this bothers you so much you can:
a) Leave and find another place with rules to your liking
b) Pay for your own website and create a forum where you get to make all the rules (or just have none, whatever you want)

Dennis doesn't have to humor you, your opinion, mine, or anyone else's. The fact that he does and we're having this discussion actually shows that maybe the current system isn't as flawed as you seem to think.
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