Savanna wrote: Jer wrote:
First of all - the Miss Daisy comment is sexist. I am a non-binary male and don't appreciate you using that reference to address me.
It is ok for someone to do botox and dress provocatively because they might think that this looks good or that it is what they want to do. People calling them out for being 'obsessed with youth', making fun of them and discredit them based on the fact that they dont look or act their age, is ageist. You dictate how you chose to present yourself to the world. That doesnt mean that the world has the right to criticise. Much to the contrary. We live in a free society where freedom of expression is celebrated. Said freedom of expression doesnt mean freedom to hate or to have criticism based on prejudice.
There is no mention from Madonna that she 'wants to remain young'. She has stated many times that she knows her age very well. It seems very clear that the ones having a problem with her are the ones with the problem, i.e. are the ageist ones... or should I say 'fucking ageist ones', would that make it more in line with what you think the previous comments?
Except it does mean that. What does "freedom to hate" even mean? Is it "hate" because it's an opinion you don't like? That's not how freedom of speech or freedom of expression works. You can't pick and choose what type of expression is "free" and what isn't.
I was talking about opinions based on prejudice here. Yes you should be able to voice them, but you should be aware that your opinions will be challenged, particularly when they affect other people's ability to live their lives the way they want to.
Freedom of hate - hate speech, prejudice, racism, xenophobia, homophobia. Too often people hide behind 'freedom of speech' in order to justify their own hatred. Freedom of speech is to facilitate conversation and platforming of voices for the common good, not for the detriment of other's ability to exist in a place or to exist however they want to. Yet, we continue to give platforms to fascists and hate preachers in the name of freedom of speech, without challenging them. That's what 'freedom of speech isn't freedom to hate' means.
I wish people would argue their points without getting so aggressive. I get that you're passionate about the things you're talking about, but if the purpose of letting your opinion known is to educate people, then it's so much more effective to do it in a civil manner instead of talking down to the person you're trying to educate.
You could say that referring to someones as "babes" in the manner you did is offensive too. It's regarded as a master suppression technique. Not that I'm defending the "Miss Daisy" thing. I find any kind of name-calling or belittling uncalled for.
Mr.X wrote:First of all - the Miss Daisy comment is sexist. I am a non-binary male and don't appreciate you using that reference to address me.
Also keep in mind that this is a Spice Girls thread, so let's not derail it further
I take your point, thank you and apologies if it was offensive.