Spanish team offends China

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Spanish team offends China

Postby JubileeRoad » 13 Aug 2008, 18:08

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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Ralu » 13 Aug 2008, 18:43

funny how apart from the last sentece it doesn't say anything about the actual Chinese being offended about that, it's just other countries and the Chinese-Americans :)

even from Denden, it appears to me that not all countries realise that some things might be regarded as/are offensive. and most of the time it's just (bad) jokes, it's not meant to annoy or offend anyone
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby JubileeRoad » 13 Aug 2008, 19:14

You may not be set out to offend someone with something you say or do, but that doesnt mean you dont actually offend then.
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Galore » 13 Aug 2008, 19:48

Viva España.
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby belli0 » 14 Aug 2008, 03:19

Raluca wrote:funny how apart from the last sentece it doesn't say anything about the actual Chinese being offended about that, it's just other countries and the Chinese-Americans :)

even from Denden, it appears to me that not all countries realise that some things might be regarded as/are offensive. and most of the time it's just (bad) jokes, it's not meant to annoy or offend anyone

So.. just because the article doesn't emphasize that the Chinese were offended, it means they weren't? I guess, I mean Yahoo IS the world's leader in journalism, after all.. :dizzy:

I read elsewhere that the excuse the Spanish team gave was that the photo was out of "great respect." Language barriers do not equal an absolute lack of cognition, and I find it really hard to believe that this gesture was intended to be completely harmless. Give me a break.
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Hungy » 14 Aug 2008, 03:32

why even pose for a picture like that, what was the point? does anybody know?
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Jessy » 14 Aug 2008, 07:39

jajajajajaja :p

tbh i cant imagine it was meant to be offensive! :rolleyes: and i blame the spaniards for everything usually ;) come on guys dont take everything so seriously!
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Hungy » 14 Aug 2008, 07:42

Jessy, do you have any insight as to what they meant by that gesture? Just curious. :) I've only ever seen that gesture in a negative way, maybe we're just uninformed as to what else it could mean?
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Hungy » 14 Aug 2008, 07:42

and I love the Spanish, I'm probably one of the only Mel C fans who do<?>
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby belli0 » 14 Aug 2008, 07:49

Jessy wrote:jajajajajaja :p

tbh i cant imagine it was meant to be offensive! :rolleyes: and i blame the spaniards for everything usually ;) come on guys dont take everything so seriously!

.. really?
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Jessy » 14 Aug 2008, 07:54

Hungy wrote:Jessy, do you have any insight as to what they meant by that gesture? Just curious. :) I've only ever seen that gesture in a negative way, maybe we're just uninformed as to what else it could mean?


no clue honestly, i can just imagine them showing theyre going to china for the olympics with this! like, instead of holding a banner or having a slogan all over the picture (the usual things to do) they do this gesture since everyone knows what theyre trying to say with it!

i understand tho that the chinese could be offended since id be offended if the olympics take place in germany and the spanish team raises the right arm and put two fingers below their nose to imitate hitler... i wouldnt be offended tho if they hold a bucket with sauerkraut in it :p altho it doesnt represent germany at all ;) quite often people use the bavarian stuff to represent germany and i could be offended because bavaria isnt germany and not all parts of germany are like bavaria... but im just like "duh, if only you guy were a bit more educated!" :D
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Jessy » 14 Aug 2008, 07:55

Hungy wrote:and I love the Spanish, I'm probably one of the only Mel C fans who do<?>


haha well have you ever been to a concert in europe with loads of spaniards pushing like theres no tomorrow? ;) lets not talk about this or Dee will try to ban me again :p

belli0 wrote:
Jessy wrote:jajajajajaja :p

tbh i cant imagine it was meant to be offensive! :rolleyes: and i blame the spaniards for everything usually ;) come on guys dont take everything so seriously!

.. really?


are you referring to the spaniard comment? :)
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby belli0 » 14 Aug 2008, 08:15

Jessy wrote:no clue honestly, i can just imagine them showing theyre going to china for the olympics with this! like, instead of holding a banner or having a slogan all over the picture (the usual things to do) they do this gesture since everyone knows what theyre trying to say with it!

i understand tho that the chinese could be offended since id be offended if the olympics take place in germany and the spanish team raises the right arm and put two fingers below their nose to imitate hitler... i wouldnt be offended tho if they hold a bucket with sauerkraut in it :p altho it doesnt represent germany at all ;) quite often people use the bavarian stuff to represent germany and i could be offended because bavaria isnt germany and not all parts of germany are like bavaria... but im just like "duh, if only you guy were a bit more educated!" :D

Well, I would certainly equate the eye-slant more to the right-arm-raise than I would to a bucket of sauerkraut. Obviously not as touchy, but it's comparable to some extent. There's just a cultural gap here so perhaps it's hard to grasp, but it is a pretty offensive gesture.

And I'm not attacking your conceptions or anything, just feel like I should explain. Posing for a picture like this is not a way to replace a banner or slogan representing one's travels to China. Nope nope. Just think about the different ways you might imitate a particular ethnicity, and consider whether or not it's offensive. More likely than not, it's offensive. :p
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Hungy » 14 Aug 2008, 08:16

ha ha yes, maybe the Spanish should have stuck to holding up chopsticks or something.... :D

Perhaps it was different where you grew up, but because there were a lot of Chinese people here (in Canada) mixed in amongst many more Caucasians, the eye-slant thing was used to make fun of us. (I remember being in Germany and seeing no Chinese people there).

But yes, next time the Olympics are in Germany, the chinese team should do "that" salute (I am joking). :)

btw, do you live near Cologne? My friend from Calgary is moving there with her new husband.
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Jessy » 14 Aug 2008, 08:47

nah cologne is 3 hours away!

well i saw it that way and if chinese people are offended by this i can somehow understand it but we shouldnt be too sensitive about this case... i am pretty sure the spaniards didnt want to offend anyone, thats what id like to make clear!
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Ralu » 14 Aug 2008, 12:02

I didn't say I don't understand why it's offensive, I do, but I just think it's silly to be offended by stuff like this, when it was obviously not meant to offend.

I don't know if anyone watched America's Got Talent auditions last month. David Haselhoff is one of the judges and when some Romanian girls sang (badly) he kept telling them that they're blood thirsty vampires coming to suck their blood (in a faux-Eastern European accent) and then to go back to Dracula in Romania. What do you say about that ? Offensive much, by your standards ? And it was on bloody national tv, in prime-time ! Yet everyone just laughed cause it was such a funny joke and the girls themselves ignored him and with the help of Sharon Osbourne went through to the next round :)

And I don't see any Romanian organization in NYC/USA getting all annoyed and offended, and there's lots of us there.
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby belli0 » 14 Aug 2008, 18:39

Raluca wrote:I didn't say I don't understand why it's offensive, I do, but I just think it's silly to be offended by stuff like this, when it was obviously not meant to offend.

I don't know if anyone watched America's Got Talent auditions last month. David Haselhoff is one of the judges and when some Romanian girls sang (badly) he kept telling them that they're blood thirsty vampires coming to suck their blood (in a faux-Eastern European accent) and then to go back to Dracula in Romania. What do you say about that ? Offensive much, by your standards ? And it was on bloody national tv, in prime-time ! Yet everyone just laughed cause it was such a funny joke and the girls themselves ignored him and with the help of Sharon Osbourne went through to the next round :)

And I don't see any Romanian organization in NYC/USA getting all annoyed and offended, and there's lots of us there.

I don't know about that.. the mood of a talent show (horrible show, btw! :D ) is just not the same. If a group of people were IN Romania, though, and dressed in vampire costumes mocking the accent, it would be offensive I think? Who knows.. it doesn't hold as much water, as Romanians are mocked... hardly ever. At least in America, this Chinese thing on the other hand, happens all too often.

I really hope it's just the cultural gap, maybe just ignorance. I still doubt it, though. Meh, I'll stop playing advocate now.. lol. I don't actually have a stick up my ass. :)
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Ralu » 15 Aug 2008, 00:40

I get your point but you got something wrong: if people came to Romania dressed in vampires and mocking the accent, no one would care. People would just say "stupid foreigners, that's all they know, Dracula" and sometimes, if they're bored, they'd try to talk to them and show them more of Romania. We don't find it offensive, we just pity people cause they're limited.

Possibly in America that thing is done as a racist, mocking act, intended to annoy or humiliate Chinese people. But I doubt the Spanish team did it like that so why take offence?

The way i see it, it's like what happens so often here on Denden, if two gay Dendeners, who are very good friends, say to eachother "shut up, you gay queen" vs. a straight Dendener saying to a gay Dendener "shut up, you gay Brit" (nationality chosen random :) )
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Hungy » 15 Aug 2008, 02:48

I'm a pretty easy-going person, but growing up as a Chinese person, that eye-slant thing was used to tell us that we were ugly because of our more-slanted eyes).

I wouldn't have taken offence if something different was used that does reflect our culture (and not our eyes, as eyes are something we are born with and we can't change). Like if instead they used stir-fry woks or something. :)

I'm a Canadian, and we're made fun of all the time for various things, and I'm totally cool with that!!!! But when it's something against our looks that we can't do anything about, then it's not funny.

Whether or not they meant to offend, they should have at least did some research to see if it's offensive. When I go to a foreign country, and I've been to lots, I read about the country to learn new things that I don't know, including what might be offensive to them (but not in my country).

Plus I don't think the gay Dendener example is a good one, because it's friends who do that to each other, so it's fine and already known between both sides that it's a friendly joke. Even I am joked about my bisexuality on DD and that's fine with me.

Plus honestly: I do think it's bad to go to Romania and talk about dracula all the time. :dizzy: Even I know that's not what your country is about, so I wouldn't do that.
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Hungy » 15 Aug 2008, 02:53

And yeah, in terms of racism, I can see visually-different people (especially with skin color, like black or "yellow" or something that you're born with that you can't change) getting more racist comments in general, than Caucasian people do. Of course there are exceptions as with anything.

I mean, what if the games were held in Africa, and the Spanish team painted themselves all in black?
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby CharDudett » 15 Aug 2008, 03:04

i think angie's somewhat point on about the situation. its one thing to make fun of a stereotype (not that its right), but its another thing to make fun of a person's biology.
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Ralu » 15 Aug 2008, 12:28

I didn't look at it that way :-/ I see your point now, and it is indeed offensive ! Thanks for taking the time to explain it :)

I'm a pretty easy-going person, but growing up as a Chinese person, that eye-slant thing was used to tell us that we were ugly because of our more-slanted eyes).


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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Jessy » 15 Aug 2008, 12:34

Raluca wrote:I get your point but you got something wrong: if people came to Romania dressed in vampires and mocking the accent, no one would care. People would just say "stupid foreigners, that's all they know, Dracula" and sometimes, if they're bored, they'd try to talk to them and show them more of Romania. We don't find it offensive, we just pity people cause they're limited.

Possibly in America that thing is done as a racist, mocking act, intended to annoy or humiliate Chinese people. But I doubt the Spanish team did it like that so why take offence?


thats exactly what i was trying to bring across... :) thx :lovers:
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Jessy » 15 Aug 2008, 12:37

Hungy wrote:Whether or not they meant to offend, they should have at least did some research to see if it's offensive. When I go to a foreign country, and I've been to lots, I read about the country to learn new things that I don't know, including what might be offensive to them (but not in my country).


bt maybe the eye-slant thing was suggested by the photographer during the shoot? it might have been very spontaneious! and some people are of moderate intelligence and wouldnt see any deep meanings behind such things... therefore dont even contemplate that its offending anyone...
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Re: Spanish team offends China

Postby Jessy » 15 Aug 2008, 12:44

id also like to point out that i didnt look at it this way. if i was a chinese id probably see it differently. but sometimes its hard to understand such things as you cant walk in someone else's shoes... well i could undergo eye surgery but that would go a bit far ;)

either way i dont even understand why people use the eye-slant thing to mock you chinese - you can find something in anyone's outside appearance. may it be a huge forehead, a big nose or a bald head...

i understand that you feel offended and guess the spanish just didnt look at it this way, like me...
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